What i can't stand about church people.

[ladyr]

I cant stand church people who is be shouting and speacking in touges on Sunday then when you ask them to do something sre donate something to the church then they have all kind of excuses and then want to be shouting n thing on Sunday cant find them out on a midweek service are prayer meeting only on Sunday........that is not rite

[misscontroversial]

Not everyone is financial stable to donate something.....some people also cant spare the time to come to church any other day but Sunday(not saying this is a good thing but hay who made it something bad?).....Some people just have alot of stress and obligations through the week and Sunday is the chance they get to really let loose and give God thanks...So if they want to shout and speaks in tongues......we should be celebrating that....shoots if you cant shout and receive the holy ghost in church then where can you go?

We as the church designated Sunday as our sabbath and as our day to give God thanks.....a long time ago...... now if we want to add everyother day in the week too now....then hay why not .....but its so uncool to be disatisfied with person whenSunday( the original day set aside) is all the time they can afford.

[[e-mail]]

The Finacial side I agree but there are other ways to make contributions other than monetary. I belive that any true commitment and relationship with God will bring us to the point where we commit to serving him and serving others as a avenue to reach them. If I only attend Church on SUndays or do any thing to help my relationship grow only on Sundays by attending church I will find out in short order I'm a weak christian..... I belive Poeple should be able to Express themselves in a church service to whther they shout loud or soft speak in tounges loud or soft, but as long as it is done in decency and order

[2988]

i agree

[bluerose]

yep thats true,but we have persons who go to church every day of the week but that dont make them any closer to GOd or any more save than the next person. i think as long as that individual is finding time to focus on GOd, read their word pray n fast. i dont think HE will look in the book and count how many days of the week he came to church every week. because i know people who grow up in CHURCH. yet have strayed so far, you wouldnt recognize them as kingdom citizens. Just my penny

[nofearson]

speaking in tongues hold my tongue cuz I dont believe we doin that one right in any form but its w/e. As far as the whole coming to church midweek and stuff, I agree with the person who said that u cud go to church everyday of the week and still be the same. Quite frankly I see it alot. However the church needs an overhaul terribly.

[ladyofintegrity]

nofearson would u like to breakdown the "i don't think we're doin that one right" part for us plz? Exactly, what did u mean?

[nofearson]

Certainly, Just like you kimeko I like to have biblical reference for what I believe. So as to try give a general idea i'll compress as much as I can and then any parts you do not understand just ask. I do this all in love. I'll start in the book of acts. On the day of Pentecost we find the believers gathered in the upper room waiitn on the promise of the Holy Spirit. agreed? So as the spirit came a few things happened and the disciples spoke in tongues. Now in 2:6 we see that the men who they were preaching to did not speak in the language that disciples generally spoke. read a lil further down in verse 8 and 9 and you see the different nations in there. The gift of tongues is not a sign to those that believe (1 Corinthians 14:22) but to unbelievers! Furthermore the stuff we hear today is not any known language. There is not two types of tongues in this world, the greek word is glossa and means languages or language. this is what the disciples spoke on pentecost.....why? because the men(unbelievers) could only understand if they(the disciples) would speak in their language. These are known languages! The word unknown for those with a KJV version is written in italics which means that the word is not originally there but was put by translators who felt it was necessary, i assure it was not needed. Paul also instructs that if one speaks in tongues they must be able to interpret or else u wont get the understanding. most surprisingly Paul says that he wished he would speak with few words he understands then to speak in tongues he doesnt (1 Corinthians 14:19). Really and truly the main thing is, is what we speak today actually any language or just some ecstatic thing. And is it profiting anybody, Are we encouraged to edify ourselfs or edify the church? 1 Cor 14(1-9) read and study.

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NOfearson I'm delighted to see such a wonderful show of Knowledge on the scriptue. It shows that you are studying and trying your best to find truth and understand it to the best of your ability I give you Props..... However It amazes me that such a theological debate or query would have come up on this site especially for the audience the forum was created for.... Wisdom is increasing don't know your age, but if you are apart of the teen and young adult age group thats cool..... The site is intended for you to freely express yourself so Can't be mad at you there but because of the doctrine we belive in and stand for I will make the following statemnt in another thread following this one:

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Nofearson it seems as though you are advocating or reasoning 1 of 2 things. 1 that tounges is no longer availiable to belivers in todays time or 2. that the tounges people use today, because it is an unkown launguage to mankind it is not really the tounges scripture speaks of either way here is wher I personally stand read the following points carfully and in the order they are stated:

1. I believ that accrording to scripture tounges is the initial evedence of one being filled with the Holy Spirit. According to (ACTS 2:4;10:44-46;19:6)

2. I believe that the gift of the HolySpirit which includes more than speaking in tounges, even though tounges is the initial evidence, is promised to all believers from the day of Pentecost to our day and time (Acts 2:14-17 and Joel 2:28) "In the Last day I will Pour out my spirit on all Flesh

3. I belive that That there are tounges of angel and tounges of men. On the day of Pentecost the Tounges that Peter and the others spoke was a sign to the unbelivers yes, but when you read scripture even those you have quoted tonges are also for the edifying of ones self. This is one of the reaosns Paul said he would that he would speak one word of english than tonges read the context of the entire chapter (Paul was dealing with the chaos and disorder that had come into that church) He was stating that in the context of a church service where there may be unbelivers if we speak in tounges all day what edification would that be to the entire church, he said the setting is not just for the edification of ones self but for the entire church thefore, Paul is stating that he would rather speak in english in that setting, as to edify all that are there Note the scripture text below

• 1 Corinthians 14:2 For one who speaks in an unkown tounge speaks not to men but to God, for no one understands or catches his meaning, because in the Holy SPirit he speaks secret truths and hidden things not obvious to the understanding (NIV)
  
• 1 Cor 14:5 NOw I wish that you would all speak in tounges, but more especially that you would prophesy than he who speaks in tounges unless he interprets it(Not the context of why he said it " Vs 5 the latter part says so that the Church would be edified and recieve Good from it. Paul is stating in a gathering in church I would rather you prophesy so that everyone would beneifit (Note the first text I made refrence to)
  

Now I will leave it here and should you have more questions or queries I am morwe than willing, but in my opinion this raised another thing I can't stand about church people, we debate about theological differences when a world is dying and going to a devils hell we can spend all day debating on these issues and thats it, no souls being won to the kingdom.. why because we are debating all day.

My intentions was not to debate but to state my beliefe in refrence to what you placed in this thread

[nofearson]

Well actually I am reasoning that both are true. And to be quite honest, this is an issue that should be understood as this leads to a bigger picture. I am young recently turned 20 but been through a lot in my short life, but that is besides the point. I do this to TEST THE SPIRITS and see whether they are of God because everything in that book is important down to the smallest detail, the man of God should be perfect and furnished to good works. IF something is not of God I would like to know and get rid of it, not just somethings, everything.

I will agree with you that yes it is a evidence of being filled with the Holy Spirit however as I stated before, if we look at the context of the situation, notice when it was done, in the presence of unbelievers who did not speak the language of the apostles. As i said before glossa means language or in the plural languages. What kind of languages is something i will deal later on in this reply. I have seen many persons leave clueless and questioning the issue of tongues asking where is the interpretation and some even want to know is that even a language they are speaking. Can anyone honestly here who speaks in tongues say that they are speaking in a known language? Can u record what you are saying and take it to any linguist and they can tell you that you are speaking a known language. This is not my own interpretation glossa means language. Its the Greek word. The Scriptures were written in Hebrew and Greek not English. So lets get our heads out of the clouds. There are not two types of tongues in the bible there is only one. Glossa is that word that is used and it means languages.

I will move on to the next point being that of tongues of men and angels. The only time we ever hear brother Paul speak of certain things is in this issue. However I encourage you to not take it out of context as you suggested to me. Ill start from 1 Cor 12:31, Paul says earnestly covet the best gifts (first off tongues is not the best one as we will see) but and this is a big but, "I SHOW YOU A MORE EXCELLENT WAY." And that way was love....now pay attention to 1 Cor 13:1-3 Paul lists somethings that he said that love is greater than but few questions. Did Paul actually understand all mysteries and had all knowledge? Did he literally gave all his possessions to feed the poor? Did he really give his body to be burned? Did he have all faith? No he did not. These are all suppositions, which is why he says not all speak in tongues, not all prophecy, not all have the gift of healing. All the gifts of the spirit were not available to everyone in the church. So why should every believer speak in tongues according to what most pentecostal churches would teach. Furthermore, I do ask that we do be careful when quoting scripture as stating that one speaks in the Holy Spirit is not accurate. Paul says anyone who speaks in a tongue and there is no interpreter then he speaks in the spirit. What does this mean exactly? Study of the word pneuma(meaning breath, current of air, blast of air or in some cases yes spirit, but I assure you Holy Spirit is not in that passage of scripture). Now what would make more sense could it be possible Paul was just saying that you speak into the air and only God could understand you if you do speak in tongues and no man can understand. I'll do more research on the usage of this word.

I would also like to point out a very important and mostly overlooked area in Paul's letter. Paul says that some of these gift would cease or stop being active, yes it is true (1 Corinthians 13:8-10) For prophecies they shall fail (Greek Word: Katargeo-be rendered useless, vanish away, make void, nullify, be discarded) However when it comes to tongues they will cease (Greek Word Pauo-to stop, quit, desist, come to an end), Knowledge will vanish away (again Greek word Katargeo). Why did Paul choose these words to use, remember scripture was written by men inspired by God, and Paul was no slouch and no word was wasted. But out of all these love will stand forever. But when will this happen when that which is perfect is come, what is that which is perfect but the word complete in all its glory and allowed to be translated so that all persons may be able to read and study wherever God leads. There is no longer need for the gift of languages. Noticed where it started from, notice the context in which it was used.

Now yes we know the issue was the Corinthian church were an unorderly bunch when they came together. That still does not justify what I believe is not the actual gift of tongues today. It wasn't that there were non believers there who just hung out, no Paul was saying that even amongst the believers there should be an interpreter, so that edification is produced. It is quite selfish to only edify yourself as we are suppose to be our brothers keeper and live in love "looking out for one another". This is the more excellent way of love. This is why he admonished to rather prophecy so that the body of believers could be edified, the unbelievers could not understand prophecy, THEY DID NOT HAVE THE SPIRIT TO UNDERSTAND!

As for the prophecy of Joel there is some serious study that needs to be done on this because if God is suppose to pour out His spirit on all flesh then why is there still so much evil in this world and its getting worse, people are driving farther away from God more than ever, believe me when I say this prophecy deals more than just tongues and other gifts of the spirit but I will deal with that another time.

Madpastor believe me tongues is not all that big of an issue to me there are bigger issues at hand. Now while I do believe that yes we are to reach the lost and spending time on useless issues is a hindrance however if you really look at whats being said about the church you would realize that the world laughs at the 'church' because we don't even know what we believe, we have so much denominations, and so much division yet we cry unity. We need to have a pattern of sound words (2 Tim 1:15), yes make sure all our teachings have no holes and that we have two or three more spiritual witness in this book. We don't add to the church, the Lord does, we don't save anyone the Lord does, quite frankly I could do without most church customs this day and age as it only shows me some fleshy things that are still among us.

All in all by scriptural tests I cant see how what we think is tongues today is the tongues in scripture. We only had about three instances where tongues where used and I guarantee you that it was in the presence of other unbelievers so that they could be reach as well since they probably didn't speak the same languages. Roman Empire was filled with many cultures and languages (hows that for context)

And Jesus wants a church without spot. Believe me getting saved is harder than most want to make it seem. there is so much to do and seems so little time but God is faithful to finish the good work. Believe me when I say I do this not to make myself seem so high and mighty in this because I held this in for so long and am even hesitant to speak on most matters even though I am instructed to expose those who contradict (Titus 1:9) believe me I have held my patience. We could sit here and debate or we could reason and really see what God wants from His people, like myself and many other believers the question is not whether its a debate or not but am I ready to let go something I held onto for so long for the sake of spiritual growth and righteousness.

As I said there are bigger issues in the church and mostly dealing with what is being taught, I am still shocked to see that after many Christians being saved for so long and could pray up a storm could turn around so quickly and carry on like little children when the opportunity arises. I will leave this comment for another discussion.

I end this with this 1 Thess 5:21 (1Th 5:21) Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

[bluerose]

I'm applauding your dedication on the matter nofearson.

What i dont like about some church folks is i feel like their double tongued, they have two standards or personalities one day they smiling up with ya, the next day they disrespecting ya, calling ya fake n thing, one day they hailing ya up, the next day they walking straight by ya. Like everything cool n we all the same, then ya find out they spitting on ya name. i say if all of us suppose to be living in love then lets live in love!

[nofearson]

Thanx bluerose and undoubtedly I will say that u need not worry about the two faced people everyone will have their works tried by fire, the question everyone on these forums should be asking is, is my fire now or later??? But yeah God really dealing wit me on couple matters all in all some people might not agree with me, and quite frankly, there is not much I could do, because that is all part of His plan but most of the customs and at least more than half of the teachings in the church are not scriptural and are half baked and such they should not be there some even come close to actual blasphemy (actually look up how the bible uses this word) but I will only share to those who actually want to learn truth, I make claim to truth only as God leads and shows. As I said I will prove what I believe and hold fast to what is God and prayerfully seek Jesus judgment now instead of later. God bless to everyone.

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Sorry I am just getting back on the forum.... But I see nofearson that you and in our theology.... however for the sake of the weak in mind and in spirit I will make my final statement on the matter should anyone read this they can decide for themselves where they stand and what they believe.

When it comes to Speaking in tongues not only do I have biblical reference that I believe to be True and Fast, but I have Life experience. I personally at a young age had the experience of Being baptized with The Holy Spirit, I have to say that what I experienced I do not believe to be anyone can tell me that it is not and was not a true experience.

The Bible Teaches that Jesus told His disciples that After Him was coming another like Him a Helper the Holy Spirit.... And He will empower the believer to be a witness (Acts 1:8 luke 24:49). I believe like I stated that The HolySPirit is still Being poured out on all flesh all that would believe on Him and receive Him. Note Just for the apostles but for all that would believe on Him. This is seen when Peter went to Cornelius' house and even Gentiles were filled with The Holy Spirit. God was Pouring out His Spirit on all Flesh that would believe and recive Him then and He is STill DOing it today My friend.

Tongues Help as stated before to edify ones-self and yes as believers it is important for one to also edify him or herself not Just others. DOn't ever make the mistake and think that you are not supposed to edify yourself. Everyday physically you take a bath, you eat, you sleep, you drink why so you can keep yourself physically well to contribute to your family yourself and community. Spiritually we must do the same edify ourselves to be effective witnesses to unbelievers. How is that done? By speaking in Tongues... A Heavenly language ( 1 Corinthians 14 :4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church). Wow Paul really does not seem to be discounting or stating that an unknown tongue is not of God or Scriptural, but rather that if there is no-one to interpret, it really only edifies ones self (which is not wrong) But the setting is not fit that you should speak in tongues all day and only edify yourself, but to encourage all even unbelievers.

"Can anyone honestly here who speaks in tongues say that they are speaking in a known language? Can u record what you are saying and take it to any linguist and they can tell you that you are speaking a known language."

Unknown tongues hum-mm is there such a thing? 1 Cor 13:! If i speak in the tongues of men and of angels? but have not love.... paul isn't disputing that there is not a such thing as an un-known tongue or tongues of angels not just that of men and yes I do believe that there are still tongues of men in operation where one can speak a language they had never learned thats how powerful God is... that it would be a sign to the unbeliever. So in 1 Cor 14 Paul now gets into the setting Follow the way of love... If you were to always edify yourself I would think you are selfish and mean... Paul says follow love desire the gift of prophecy , because when you Just speak in tongues , you don't speak to men but to God. Love says when I'm in the cogregation of others seek to edify all. Yes my freind there is such a thing as a laungauge that even linguist cannot decode, because again you speak mysteries in the Spirit.

You agreed that there are tongues you ask if the tongues of the day are the tongues the apostles spoke in? My answer is Yes the Apostles spoke in tongues of Angels and of Men. I can admit that today we speak more so in the tongues of angels than of men. Thats why Paul says the more excellent way is to prophecy than to speak in tongues all day that all would be edified.

For those reading this I want you to study the scriptures for yourself, but do not allow the devil to cause you to question your Faith.... For the just shall live by faith.....Wisdom of man cannot fathom the wisdom of God....The Things of God may seem foolish to the wisdom of man but all in all My experience has brought me to the point that I believe that God is pouring out His spirit on all that believe, with the evidence of speaking in tongues. Scientist will conclude that our faith is entirely foolish, based on what we believe like our savior actuality raised form the dead, but by faith even though we have not physically seen God with our eyes and our experience causes us to believe with a strong conviction that God is real and alive. Tongues is a real evidence of Being filled with the Holy Spirit.. (Galatians 3:14 That we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith) Everything we receive from the Lord is done so in faith... Hebrews 1:6 Fr he who comes to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarded of them that diligently seek Him) To conclude this part of my reason for Belief in the baptism of The Holy Spirit with the initial evidence with speaking in tongues I will state this: The Baptism of the Spirit is not necessarily that of feelings,of signs or evidences, it is a matter of believing by faith that God has and will send His Promise spirit upon us. I will seek to break down The context of Pauls letter to the corinthin church for the benefit of nofearson in my next post to show that Paul was not discrediting tongues of angels or men , but showing how God in the context of a church setting wants us to covet those gifts.... the best gifts in the means of benifiting the whole body not just the individual

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Lets deal with some of nofearsons' statements in his reply:

1. "There are not two types of tongues in the bible there is only one"

nofearson Here is what the scripture states in response to this statement:
"If I speak in the Tongues (plural) of men and of Angels, but have not love" Notice Paul identifies two types of tongues 1. men and 2 angels so I'm sorry but scripture mentions two tongues (1 Corinthians 13:1)

2. "Can u record what you are saying and take it to any linguist and they can tell you that you are speaking a known language."

Notice when Paul begins to describe tongues, based on the plurality of the word that of men and angels Paul states "For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men (linguist will be included in the context of men) but to God. Indeed no-one understands him; (why Paul) He utters mysteries with his spirit. (However) he who prophesies speaks to men (Why Paul... Because of the context of this letter duerre...) For the their encouragement, strength and comfort. (1 Corinthians 14:2-3)

3." Paul says earnestly covet the best gifts (first off tongues is not the best one as we will see) but and this is a big but, "I SHOW YOU A MORE EXCELLENT WAY."

Lets start at the end of nofearsons statement here "I show you a more excellent way" As paul stated. What is the more excellent way? Love how is love manifested in the context paul is writing by ministering and encouraging others not just ones-self. Paul uses a few differnt greek words in this chapter lets break it down real quick starting from Chapter 12: Now concerning "Pneumatika" Greek fr Spiritual gifts. (gifts is not found in the original greek but placed there for a better English understanding of the text) The original writing Just says Now concernng spirituals ... when we see gifts in chpter 14 this is the same greek wrd used.. spirituals then is a refrence to the persons endowed with spiritual gifts, more than
the gifts. The "spirituals" in one sense are "gifts but they are more than gifts as you will see soon.

(b) The second greek word used is a word called "Charasmata" Vs 4 of Cor 12
Now there are different Kinds of "Charasmata" Gifts" The greek word which is translated as spritual gift comes from the basic word "Charis" which means grace. So the understanding brings us to the fact that the gifts Paul speaks of to the spiritual person is a gift freely bestowed upon the believer by The Holy Spirit. These gifts are not earned but freely bestowed by God and are given as gifts to the... (watch this) CHURCH, which is the body of Christ, which is Pauls Mean subject. (remeber when finding the context you must identify the subject of a matter, everything else is built around the subject, and the Pauls Subject believe it or not is not Gifts, but he is building his argument like I am to deal with how the gifts should operate to benefit ... the subject..The church... the entire body.... This is Love the more excellent way that all should benefit) You see nofearson the church of Corinth had a problem... they would have would most churches have today a sense of spiritual elitism which they felt as though they were better than other members that did not speak in tongues or at the moment show evidence of being filled and so to kind of sow off that they were more spiritual they would always speak in tongues to say "I am more spiritual" So before Paul says I will show you a more excellent way, here is what he did, he sought to break this mindset and begins to say, all of us are apart of the body of Christ and the hand cannot say to the foot i have no need of you, all parts of the body is important and necessary for the effectiveness of the church So in 1 Corinthians 12:14-27 he deals with this. In 1 Cor 12: 27 Paul is getting ready to transition to the other part of His arguement of how in the context of a church we should seek to benifit the whole... or everybody rather than ones self " Now you are the body of Christ... (his subject) and each one of you is important" ( he begins to break down the different gifts that are in the church, but does not necessarily mean one is more important than the other, but rather all the gifts work together, just as the parts of the body work together,as to benefit the entire church) and now he uses a third Greek word in Vs 28 "Diakoniai"

(c) Diakoniai is also used in 1 Cor 12: 5 Now there are differences in diakonia or translated Administrations or ministries (in the church) the "Spirituals" are gifts in regard to their orgin and source , but they are ministries in regard to their application or administration. The gifts then are not merit or awrads is what paul is trying to show the church at Corinth and they are not given to benifit primarily the possessor of the gifts, but rather the Spirit imparts "charismata" Gifts... why that their may be ministry to the Body of Christ the Churc (agian we see Pauls main subject being adressed) So Paul is basing the Value of the Gifts he is about to describe based on their ability to minister to the Church...not the individual...for it's spiritual profit and edification Vs 6 and 7 he says " Now there are different ways these gifts manifest" or different operations" Operations in the greek is translated energema which means active principle or effect. Our english word energy comes from the same root word of the greek. The spiritual gifts then are operations energized by the Holy Spirit ,prodcuing effects in the body f Christ. A gift, paul is trying to state, that does not produce an effect for the entire body is of little value. Vs 7 says the manifestation of the spirit is given to EVERY MAN to profit withal" and even though the Spirit gives a variety of gifts to the body it is the same God that works through all. (so the greater gifts in Pauls context will be the gifts that benefit the church, had Paul been dealing with the individual beliver I believe the greater gifts for the believer would differ in order and value, but thats not his intention, he was dealing with the entire body of Christ He was promoting Unity in the church to get rid of the disorder and chaos that had come into the church. So Corinth don't try to have spiritual elitism.... I show you a more excellent way then or a better way to operate in the church)

And as a result we flow into Chapter 13 where Paul identifies the two types of tongues angels and men.... but he is saying I only edify myself or ones self when I do this But we should seek to edify the entire body, now we can better understand the entire chapters 13)

"Paul says that some of these gift would cease or stop being active, yes it is true (1 Corinthians 13:8-10) For prophecies they shall fail (Greek Word: Katargeo-be rendered useless, vanish away, make void, nullify, be discarded) However when it comes to tongues they will cease (Greek Word Pauo-to stop, quit, desist, come to an end), Knowledge will vanish away (again Greek word Katargeo). "

Nofearsons statement above tries to prove the fact then That tongues have ceased: Lets quickly address this: Apart of Pauls argument or building his argument to help Corinth see how important it was that they seek to benefit the entire body, rather than allow the enemy to bring disunity and confusion he starts to really preach about Love in his letter. Remember one of their problems was they thought they were better than each other based on their gifts, but Paul says If I speak in tongues If I prophecy If I have Faith and give all I possess to the Poor and don't have love then I gain nothing. He gives Characteristics of Love and one of the Characteristics was "Love Never Fails" 1 Cor 13:8. But he says Prophecies one of His "best gifts he said to covet" They will cease, or stop or fail, Tongues they will be stilled, where there is Knowledge it will pass away. many people use this text to try and prove the fact that Tongues are no longer for today bu again when one reads it in context a better understanding is given. A few questions to you nofearson Has Knowledge passed away? no, man is still inventing and becoming smarter as the days go by, has Prophecies passed away? no they are still in operation, has tongues passed away? Nope.

Lets look at The words of Peter ( Acts2: 38,39Repent and be baptised and you shall recive the Promise of The Holy Spirit , For the Promise is to You (Meaning his audience) and to your children (Meaning The children of His audience) and to all that are afar off (Meaning as far as many generations) and to all that the Lord God shall call (Is God still Calling People to serve him today? you bet) If the Early Church needed to Receive the Baptism of the Holy Spirit Then You bet we need The Holy Spirit more than ever today. Is the Baptism for All You bet, ALL THAT will Call On the Lord and By Faith Believe and Receive the promise of The Holy Spirit. So the All flesh Joel Speaks about Means The all Flesh That would repent and receive By Faith The Promise of The father. The Greek word Vanish Away Katargeo" You are correct, Paul was stating That when all of these things cease, which they have not, the only thing that will still be standing is Love.

"But when will this happen when that which is perfect is come, what is that which is perfect but the word complete in all its glory and allowed to be translated so that all persons may be able to read and study wherever God leads. There is no longer need for the gift of languages."

No fearson says that that which is perfect is the translated word of God, not so When thats is perfect comes refers to the "Living Word" Jesus Gods son Now Jesus Came a First Time as a baby and after he was crucified and raised again he acended and then the Holy Spirit, The promise of The father Came, So then Paul was not talking about the first coming, it wouldn't make sense, He is talking about the second coming of The Lord Jesus Christ. "This is Pauls "that which is Perfect comes" When Christ comes the second time there will be no need for tongues and prophecies, or knowledge. ( For we shall be made to be like him) "but when perfection comes the imperfect dissapears. Paul uses a eartly example of how when one is a child he would think like one but when he is a man he puts away childish things) He says for now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror, but then we shall see face to face ( with God, during the second coming) Now on earth I Only know inpart, but then (after the second coming) I shall Know fully even as I am fully known. (how's that for context).

Now he transitions to Chapter 14 Follow the way of Love eagerly, (since Love will be standing after all passes away)

"It wasn't that there were non believers there who just hung out, no Paul was saying that even amongst the believers there should be an interpreter, so that edification is produced. It is quite selfish to only edify yourself as we are suppose to be our brothers keeper and live in love "looking out for one another". This is the more excellent way of love."

Nofearson our context almost lines up here now the only difference is Paul is not trying to make speaking in tongues of no effect or to say it is not right, even when it comes to edifying ones self. If that were the case He would be saying not to edify yourself just others. This is not so Question Do you take a bath? Yes Do you eat? Yet, Do you work? Yes what are you physically doing when you do all these things? edifying or building up yourself, in order that you may be effective in your community, family and mankind on the whole. (He states He who speaks in tongues then "edifies himself", nothing wrong with that," I would like that every one of you speak in tongues" (1 Cor 14:5 ) However because of The context (his subject the whole not the individual he says this is not the time to edify ones self alone, "but I would rather have you prophesy" Why because it benefits the entire church. Paul goes on in the following vs to build his argument on this statement by giving examples of how a lifeless instrument lie a flute produces different notes so that we can distinguish between the sounds (a master teacher this Paul using illustrations to make his point clear) then another example he uses is the fact of many languages (glossa) in the world. that if he did not grasp the meaning of what someone was saying to him he would be a foreigner to that person and vise verser, he says using this as an example then be eager to excel in the gifts that build up the church not just the individual

"There is not two types of tongues in this world, the greek word is glossa and means languages or language. this is what the disciples spoke on Pentecost.....why? because the men(unbelievers) could only understand if they(the disciples) would speak in their language. These are known languages! "

nofearson i want you to know....The Greek word is in a male gender (glosson) The term Kinds doubtless refers to the fact that there are "new tongues" and Tongues of men and of angels" (1 Cor 13:1). Some tongues are human languages yes...like on the day of pentecost (to show that the gospel was for all races and nations). Some tongues are of a heavenly origin (of angels, for prayer and praise where the mind is superceded (1 Cor 14:2 Rom 8:26... For we ouselves may not know how to pray but the spirit Himslef makes intercesion for us with groans that (earthy languages) cannot express. Lets then look at Tongues in depth shortly though
Tongues as a "sign" 1 Cor 14:22... "tongues then are a sign" not for the believer but unbelievers now Glossa is expressed which means known laungauges since the unsaved may be of any or many number of tongues or launguages there must therefore be various "kinds" of tongues If you employ tongues in private devotions , the Kind is not important, they will be new tongues or Spirit Given heavenly tongues So the first tongue of men is to edify the Body.... and to be a sign.... the other heavenly or angels is to edify the individual.

Look these up to show the difference in tongues:
1. The initial physical evidence of Being filled: (acts 2:4; 10:45,46;19:6)
2Praying in tongues as a prayer language: 1 Cor 14:2,14,15; Romans 8:26,27)
3 Tongues together with interpretation as a sign to the unbelievers (1 Cor 14:22)

To sum up my Long dissertation here lol: which I felt was needed to prove my belief and experience: Paul says this "I thank God that I speak in tongues (glosson) more than all of you, But in the church (His main subject) I would rather speak 5 intelligible words to instruct others that 10,000 words in tongues (1 Corinthians 14:18). Paul never disputed that either tongues of angels or of men are not real or still in operation today, but rather for the edification of all in the context o church Speak English if a tongues comes forth then let there also be one to prophesy, or pray for the interpretation your self. (hows all that for context)